Blake Wheeler and Bruins go to arbitration
by Stanley Cup of Chowder on Jul 27, 2010 5:57 PM EDT
120 comments
Blake Wheeler and the Boston Bruins held their scheduled salary arbitration hearing today to determine the value of the young winger. The Bruins were represented by GM Peter Chiarelli and Assistant GM Don Sweeney at Tuesday's hearing in Toronto, while Wheeler and his agent Matt Keator represented the Wheeler camp. The third-party arbitrator will now have 48 hours to determine a fair value for a one-year contract for Wheeler.
According to reports, both sides felt that the proceedings were conducted professionally:
"I think it was handled very professionally by both sides," said Matt Keator, Wheeler's agent. "Our interpretation of the marketplace is different from theirs, hence the disagreement. I think both sides handled it well, keeping it professionally. They pointed out Blake's shortcomings. We pointed out Blake's strengths. But Blake already knew his shortcomings. He knows what he needs to work on. There were no hurt feelings in what was said. It was not contentious at all."
- Matt Keator via Fluto Shinzawa on Boston.com
"I agree [with Keator] and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone as these hearings are always very professional"
- Peter Chiarelli via James Murphy on ESPN Boston
While Blake Wheeler took a bit of a step back this season after a strong rookie campaign, it is undeniable that this young man has a great skill set and tremendous potential. I (like most B's fans) would like to see Wheeler become more of a complete player by using his big frame to his advantage and being more physical, getting to the dirty areas on the ice more, and minimizing mental lapses. That being said, I would like to see him learn these things with a Spoked-B on his chest. The consensus seems to be that Wheeler should earn somewhere in the $2.5 million range, which doesn't seem out of line when you consider the current market for NHL forwards. As Wheeler's agent pointed out, "these 6-foot-5 players who have 83 points over their first two seasons don't grow on trees."
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Agreed..
People are too tough on this kid. He was 5th on the team in points (Not saying much, I know, but imagine how much worse it would have been if he WASN’T there..). He’s a better option than just about anything out there, but definately needs to work on some stuff.
Keep the updates coming, I don’t like having to go to other websites for Bruins news
100% agree - a lot of people are too quick to dislike Wheels
I do agree with a lot of the thoughts that he’s not physical enough given his size, but I think a lot of the anger/dislike of him related to this has to come from Big Joe and Phil Thrill, IE past B’s where this was more of an issue as they were bigger parts of the team.
Right now Wheels is a pretty solid winger, but not really a topline guy, so there is plenty of room for him to grow in my book.
Here’s to hoping he’s back for at least one more year
Thanks, I have been slacking a bit lately with the posts.
by Stanley Cup of Chowder on Jul 27, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell us more, Fightin’ Sioux fan! 
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Get Bill Guerin
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 27, 2010 7:24 PM EDT reply actions
There are not enough letters in the word "no" to express the no-ness of my answer.
He’s 39. We already have the oldest active player in the league. We don’t need #2.
Try not to take this personally, but kicking Wheeler out the door to sign Guerin would be one of the dumbest ideas in the history of dumb.
No
that would be trading Savard to keep Wheeler
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 27, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They need to squash these Guerin rumors. He is washed up and I doubt he wants to come back here after he was shown the door.
by Stanley Cup of Chowder on Jul 27, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
for real, this team needs to take a step to let their young talent have a shot at the big game… you have 3-4 guys who are like 18-22ish who could potentially make the NHL roster. that is the sole reason that i am starting to feel like trading savvy wouldn’t be armageddon for this team. i would rather keep him, but they have enough young depth that dealing him wouldnt kill this team, so they really don’t need to be bringing in more almost 40 year olds to “give the young guys some time” before we know it, they will be leaving town. start giving the youngins a shot
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 27, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought BBS was just blowing smoke. But yup, there’s an actual Guerin to Boston rumor out there: http://www.nesn.com/2010/07/report-bruins-interested-in-bill-guerin.html
(Sorry for doubting you, BBS. I do not, however, retract my opinion that letting Wheeler walk to bring in Guerin would be galactically stupid.)
If they’re talking to Guerin, that tells me a few things:
1. they’re serious about sending Ryder down I-95.
2. they’re not comfortable entering 2010 with a bunch of rookie wingers.
3. they’ve all but closed the door on Miro Satan.
- is fine. Few Bruin fans are going to seriously argue against letting Ryder collect $4M in Providence.
- is fine. We can assume Seguin will be on the roster, probably as a wing. Chances are, Wheeler will as well, unless he gets an insane award. We don’t know Sturm’s status, and it might behoove Colborne and Caron to have a full year in the AHL. Of the kids, only Brad Marchand really has earned a shot with the big club, as he has nothing more to prove in the minors, and he’s probably a guy who’s best served providing some scoring punch to the checking line. (Fwiw, I love the idea of a Paille-Campbell-Marchand checking line. Alas, Shawn Thornton’s ability to beat up opposing players is apparently more important.) If we assume Ryder is buried, as I think likely, all that leaves the B’s pretty thin at wing, meaning that signing a veteran on a 1 year contract is not a bad idea at all.
- is not fine. But, alas, it is perfectly in line the classic approach of the Bruins front office. Big players are preferable to little ones, and if they should come from the state of Massachusetts, so much the better. (How many years in a row were we treated to Keith Tkachuk trade rumors, even long after he was worth anything?) Guerin is 6’2, 220. Satan is 6’3 (no, I did not think he was that tall, but that’s how he’s listed), 191. Both are well past their primes. No difference, right?
Thing is, Satan was better last year. His 9-5-14 totals in 38 games were underwhelming, but he managed a shockingly high +8 in that time. Not bad for a guy who’s never been regarded as a really good defensive player. And it’s suggestive of the notion that he bought completely into Claude Julien’s way of thinking. Guerin’s raw totals are more impressive (21-24-45 in 78 games), but he was also a -9, AND he had the benefit of playing with either Crosby or Malkin pretty much every shift. Advanced statistical metrics bear out that Satan was better, too: both had a 3.1 GVT last year, but Satan did that in half the games. Over a full season, his GVT would have been twice Guerin’s. Throw in Satan’s strong playoff performance (10 points in 13 games), and there’s no comparison between the two.
Granted, Satan might have played a bit above his head last year; his 15.3% shooting percentage was absurdly high. But then, he’s always been a very accurate shot (14.1% for his career), and he was 14.2% the year before, so a big dropoff isn’t too likely. Even if we further assume that Satan playing half the season allowed him to be well rested and save some energy for the stretch run, I just don’t see how one would come to the conclusion that Guerin is a better investment unless you buy into the “bigger is better” tagline…which Boston management has of course done time and again.
Here’s the other thing: if they’re interested in signing a veteran winger on a 1 year deal, why bother with Guerin or Satan when they could probably have Paul Kariya for the same money? With a 6.6 GVT last year (18-25-43 raw stats, a respectable -7 on an awful team), Kariya showed he’s probably got more left in the tank than either Satan or Guerin.
First of all I think the Guerin rumors need to be put to bed before anyone actually starts to believe it’s a good idea, for all the reasons you listed above. He’s old as hell.
However, I don’t know if that necessarily means we need to re-sign Miroslav, unreal shooting percentage and all. He’s not going to age well like a fine wine or anything, and I wonder if he’d do better or worse playing a full season. If he can really out-shoot most of the league like that for a full season….well, that’d help our terrible offense. I don’t know where we’d have the cap space for him, though.
Side-note: Nathan Horton has a higher career shooting percentage than Miroslav Satan.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, if they feel they have space for Guerin, they have it for Satan or Kariya. Any of those guys are going to be looking at something like a 1 year, $1M contract. If Ryder is sent to the minors, and Wheeler’s award isn’t through the roof, they should be fine.
Guerin is a better all around player then Satan isn't he?
Not sure about this now, but I remember Billy G being a bit more involved then Satan last year…could be wrong but he feels like a more complete player to me.
I actually love this idea, more veteran players who have been there and done that, it’s worth a lot. I’m more interested in the leadership, grit and heart then goals and offense
No, he is not.
GVT measures total contributions: offense, defense, shootout. Satan and Guerin both scored 3.1, i.e. they were worth 3.1 more goals than a replacement player. But Satan did that in half the games. In fact, much of his edge came from his DEFENSIVE metrics, believe it or not. And I’m not going to let go of that +8 rating. Satan was 5th on the team in +/-, despite playing half a season. There is ample evidence that he played better defensively than he was given credit for.
“Leadership n’ grit” is what (no offense, I’m not trying to single you out) sports fans argue when they have no objective evidence to support their argument. Every piece of objective evidence we have in hand supports the idea that Satan is a better player than Guerin. (And that’s before considering that Guerin is 4 years older.) So, one resorts to an impossible-to-prove/disprove argument. Offense and defense win hockey games, and Satan was better at both last season and will likely be better at both this season.
Don’t forget “hard-working” to go with that Grit and Leadership.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. There’s different nomenclature for each sport, and we need to obey that. In hockey, they’re “Grinders”. In basketball, they’re “Glue Guys”. In baseball they’re either “Proven Veterans” or “Guys Who Do All The Little Things”. The common denominator is always the same: “I have no objective evidence to support my conclusion, and so I will find a way to praise this guy despite his mediocre statistics.”
Which is not to say that chemistry isn’t important or those guys don’t help. Let’s just try not to fill our team with them.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. Not to get totally off-topic, but it bothers me most in baseball. Hockey, basketball and (most of all) football require teamwork and you need a few of those guys. The whole must exceed the sum of the parts. Baseball is an individual sport disguised as a team sport. Praising a player because he excels at sacrifice bunting and “moving runners over” (two of the primary “little things” so beloved by dumb announcers, cough Joe Morgan cough) makes me want to sharpen a #2 pencil and jam it in my ear.
okay so not better all around
I would still say there is more to sports then what stats support. I’m not saying you need a full roster of these guys either, but if you don’t think the Bs need more grit and heart, well at least Recchi did end of last year.
Nothing against Satan (the player) but he was there last year, and they aren’t rushing to bring him back despite his stats. And he was unemployed for a reason last year as well – so me thinks perhaps here is a lack of leadership or commradorie or something like that here, where Billy G offers more.
by JonnyNYC on Jul 28, 2010 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Im fine with Guerin over Wheeler
Guerin was good here a few years ago, and i can easily see a Guerin-Bergeron-Recchi line
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 28, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Guerin wasn’t good here a few years ago…he was excellent. If we were getting the 2000-01 Bill Guerin, I’d kick Wheeler to the curb without a moment’s delay. Problem is, 10 years have passed in the interim. He was 29 then and in his athletic prime. Now, he’s 39.
mid-late 20s is the prime for a forward, usually. It takes a special kind of old man on a bad team to be useful, like Recchi with the Bruins last year.
Last year Guerin played on a line with Crosby and got fewer points than Crosby got goals. From talking to pens fans he also took a lot of offside penalties.
He pretty much just stood in front of the net on the powerplay though, which we could use…tell you what, if he signs for only the remaining cap space we’ve got we’ll take him.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
agree
That place was for diehard sports fans. I only follow my team when they're in the playoffs" - Homer Simpson
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 28, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is, the Bruins already have two guys who can stand in front of the net and tip the puck in on the power play: Recchi and Lucic. It’s a skill that they should be cultivating in Wheeler, as well.
In a vacuum, I wouldn’t be against signing Guerin. But Kariya and Satan are both better options and probably at the same price.
I’d be for signing Guerin if most other combinations of younger, better, and cheaper had been exhausted already.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd go Guerin, Satan, then Kariya if price is equal
Though I think at least two of them are going to be too much
by JonnyNYC on Jul 28, 2010 2:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You know, we are allowed to pick up guys who aren’t in the twilight of their careers.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
none of whom were/are in this convo
And I think that’s mostly due to price. Age equals cheap
by JonnyNYC on Jul 28, 2010 3:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Plus, you have to remember that Satan only played 38 games. I’m wondering how he would have held up to a grueling 82 games.
by Stanley Cup of Chowder on Jul 28, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Could the Bs afford Wheeler ?
If his salary goes beyond 2.5 mil, would the bruins let him walk or would there be enough cap space for him ? Is sending Ryder to the minors an option ?
by Knuckles O'hoolihan on Jul 28, 2010 8:38 AM EDT reply actions
If they can’t clear salary elsewhere, I’m sure that sending Ryder to Providence is their plan of last resort. And since they haven’t entertained a 50 cents on the dollar type return for Savard, I think they’re leaning in that direction. If they were THAT worried about the cap, they could have traded Savard for a draft pick by now.
Every other team has gotten back a decision and had the news out by dinnertime the same day. Get yourself together, arbiter.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 8:45 AM EDT reply actions
Murph says $2.1 to $2.4M
So basically the current guess is still 2.1-2.4? Awesome.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
that would be great, hard to get more then 1 year though
And then I realize how amazing it is that the B’s are this tight against the cap….10 years ago this would wll be a pipe dream
by JonnyNYC on Jul 28, 2010 2:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
2.1-2.4??? absolutely bring back wheels for that price, no question
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 28, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Right there with you, homie.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 28, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, not up on my gangster lingo, that may not have made sense at all, not a clue
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 28, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I will see you and raise you Snoop in a Springfield Indians jersey
by Stanley Cup of Chowder on Jul 28, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe not more gangster, but more bad ass?? YEEEAAAAHHHHH!!!!! [IMG]http://i30.tinypic.com/4l4zr7.jpg[/IMG]
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 28, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent work, everyone.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
i was trying to find a pic of the guy from dont be a menace to south central while drinking your juice in the hood wearing an old school portland pirates jersey, but this is the most i could come up with, http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1akGSbJIoxM/hqdefault.jpg
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 29, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved the old Portland Pirates uniforms.
by Stanley Cup of Chowder on Jul 29, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
they do like a throwback night once a year where they wear those unis. which is the type of shit that i wish the NHL did more often. like if the bruins were to wear their early 90’s jersey for a night, they would sell a ton of those. could really help teams make some money. its missed opportunities like that that really add up and cost the league a lot of money
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 30, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't that 48 hour window closing soon??
…..I wonder what the deal is.
Today is just like Christmas…..except , instead of getting presents…we may get Blake Wheeler for another year.
Ok, so it’s more like getting an STD Test results back.
I kid, I kid.
It’s amazing how often I’m checking in to see. Realistically, it’s maybe a difference of half a million bucks on the Bruins cap.
I am, at this point, about 95% sure they’re planning to get rid of Ryder. If they trade Savard, it will be because they want Seguin at center immediately, not for cap purposes.
HackswithHaggs: More time it takes to announce Blake Wheeler arbitration hearing the more I hear Rufus saying “something strange is afoot at the Circle K”
by Arenacale on Jul 29, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And this gem
JonFDOY: Girls, help me start a trend. If your boyfriend “explodes” too early in the bed room, tell him he Wheeler’d.
Twitter – 3 minutes ago
I always felt we guys should help the “Ovechkin” catch on. That is, after sex, get out of bed, jump up and check the headboard.
Does this mean we need to wear skates with yellow laces in bed? Because, uh, that could get bad if they’ve been sharpened in the last year.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you mean the “flaming guitar” celebration? Maybe we’re thinking of different things, but I thought that when he scored his 50th, that was the Jimi Hendrix flaming guitar thing he was doing…in which case, it’s perfectly acceptable if you sing “Foxy Lady” to the woman as you do so.
Yup, that’s the one…but the question is, what is “on fire” when doing it? I think that determines the tastefulness of it.
I know it was referred to as the “hot stick” celebration too.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Tim Kennedy
@mirtle: I’m told Sabres forward Tim Kennedy was awarded $1-million in arbitration, a raise from the $635000 he made last season.
FINALLY SOME NE-
oh. nevermind…
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Kalman on fi-yah
TheBruinsBlog: Arbiter was going to rule on Wheeler, but was whistled for offsides
Well actually Jon from Days of Y’Orr had that like an hour ago but Kalman should keep trying:
JonFDOY: @HubSportsLive Wheeler tried to walk away, but was quickly whistled for offsides.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree....
I saw something yesterday about Stuart and Wheeler going to TO for Tomas Kaberle. Come to think of it, that may have come from EK at hockeybuzz……sooooooooo, nevermind.
Here’s the thing: why would the announcement of the award be held up? Don’t they have time to do something afterwards? It seems odd to me that the arbitrator would hold up his decision just because the Bruins are thinking of trading Wheeler.
Maybe he keeps falling down for no apparent reason.
by SkateHitShoot on Jul 29, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
From Fluto...
Free agent defenseman Ryan Donald has agreed to a one-year deal with Providence. Donald, who participated in last month’s development camp as an invitee, played four years at Yale. Last season, Donald scored two goals and six assists in 34 games as Yale captain. Upon the conclusion of his college career, Donald signed an amateur tryout contract with Springfield, where he appeared in three AHL games.
Could EK be right for the first time in his life?? Stuart and Wheels to The Leafs??
Some bridge contract Stewie got. A bridge to Toronto and kesselmania. If true.
by SkateHitShoot on Jul 29, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Most writing on the wall I see is bathroom graffiti. This is actually a pretty fitting way of looking at it.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins/extras/bruins_blog/2010/07/niemis_hearing.html
Niemi and Wheeler have the same Arbiter so that’s delaying things. This is getting hilarious as it is annoying.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
According to alan Walsh on twitter:
walsha
Salary Arb Walkaway number is adjusted annually. Walkaway number for 2010 is $1,570,260.
Which means teams can’t walk away from Arbitration awards below that number. I don’t think we have to worry.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
No confirmation from Bruins or Wheeler’s agent Matt Keator yet regarding my last tweet that award was $2.4 mill. Waiting.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 29, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
what sort of magc does wheels hold?
Says no to The Great One, gets a sweet contract for a rookie.
Now he sings a sweet song and the arbitrator thinks longer and deeper about wheels deal then whether or not to giver the Bs a reach around when he is done (its common courtesy afterall)
by JonnyNYC on Jul 29, 2010 5:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
$2.2M
GlobeBruins
Bruins blog: Wheeler nets $2.2 million arbitration award http://dlvr.it/39wCf #bruins
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Roster with Seguin signing max rookie contract and Sturm on LTIR
FORWARDS
Milan Lucic ($4.083m) / Marc Savard ($4.007m) / Nathan Horton ($4.000m)
Blake Wheeler ($2.200m) / David Krejci ($3.750m) / Michael Ryder ($4.000m)
Tyler Seguin ($3.750m) / Patrice Bergeron ($4.750m) / Mark Recchi ($1.950m)
Daniel Paille ($1.075m) / Greg Campbell ($1.100m) / Shawn Thornton ($0.812m)
DEFENSEMEN
Zdeno Chara ($7.500m) / Dennis Seidenberg ($3.250m)
Andrew Ference ($2.250m) / Johnny Boychuk ($1.875m)
Mark Stuart ($1.675m) / Matt Hunwick ($1.450m)
GOALTENDERS
Tim Thomas ($5.000m) /Tuukka Rask ($1.250m)
BUYOUTS: Peter Schaefer ($0.766m) / Patrick Eaves ($-0.041m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $1,759,795
TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,212,771; BONUSES: $3,800,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $987,229
Well that’s a little disingenuous, Sturm’s cap hit will certainly be over 987k for the year when it’s all said and done.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 30, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah it will, but when Sturm is ready to come back they would have to move a player anyway, so that should count for the cap hit difference. At least this lineup looks good to start the season and is under the cap. Maybe it will give Ryder some time to prove his worth to the B’s as a player or as trade bait. Unless he doesn’t make it to the start of the season wearing a Bruins jersey…
thats a good line up, especially if they are in “win now” mode. however, i feel like it is just as likely that they go opening night with a line up set up for the long term development of the team. maybe some thing like -
Lucic – Krejci – Horton
Wheeler – Bergeron – Recchi
Colborne – Seguin – Caron
Thornton – Campbell – Paille
Chara – Seidenberg
Boychuk – Kaberle
Ference – Hunwick
Rask
Thomas
thats the best case scenario in my opinion, bury ryder in the minors, and make the savard for kaberle swap that is oft rumored to be whats going to happen. this line up has a good amount of cap room, about 5 million bucks. thats enough to ensure that we can resign some of the guys that are going to have decent sized raises coming to them. it also gives the promising young forewards absoloutely invaluable experience
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 30, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow!
That’s seems a little more radical than I would think they need to go. No Savvy and No Ryder! I don’t think think they need to subtract that much. If they are lucky enough to move just Ryder ( and a prospect) that would take care of the cap issue and leave Savvy on the roster which would make them look pretty good. If they get anything out of a kid from Providence they could look damn good and super entertaining!
As good as Kaberle would be, I think this team would be better off with Savard and Stuart! Your lines are good with the top 5 forwards but there is alot to wonder about with the 3rd and 4th lines! Replace Caron with Savvy and you get 3 solid forward lines and when you see Thornton on the ice you know its ok to go get a beer and you’ll have a great replay to see when you get back!
They would still have a very respectable defense with Stuart instead of Kaberle!
by SkateHitShoot on Jul 30, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
all very valid points. it really just boils down to which direction they feel like going in. either way they should have a productive season
by BlueNGoldBomber on Jul 30, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
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